common misconceptions about enlightenment

topic posted Sat, May 12, 2007 - 7:38 PM by  Unsubscribed
Share/Save/Bookmark
Advertisement
okay. i'll go first.

somebody else can make it happen for you.
posted by:
Unsubscribed
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

    Sun, August 26, 2007 - 8:44 PM
    the non~duality bliss~out
    www.youtube.com/watch

    awake~asleep~awake enlightenment
    www.youtube.com/watch
    • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

      Mon, August 27, 2007 - 10:54 AM

      aren't all concepts, whether mis-conceptions or not,
      contrary to enlightenment?

      when we get rid of our concepts,
      isn't that where enlightenment resides?
      • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

        Mon, August 27, 2007 - 1:12 PM
        Well, Aurelia, on the surface it sounds good to say that we can get rid of our concepts, but I don't really think it is that simple. There's no such thing as living without concepts - even if one might be in the deepest states of meditation, as these states relies on conceptual processing. What we term as our consciousness is a vast network of conceptual information - and being that we live right in the middle of it - it becomes and has become more of less second nature to us. I tend to think the best we can do is to ever-so-slowly modify our behavior, which, over time can have noticeable effects. Though remember, wherever we go becomes the norm and in doing so vanishes to our awareness.
        • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

          Mon, August 27, 2007 - 2:40 PM
          there is a state beyond thought,beyond conceptual processing. thoughts and concepts are defensive tools used to get us through a world often perceived as hostile. maybe see it this way, we were born naked but we all wear clothes as situationally appropriate. we are more than aware of this and move through life free of clothes donning them only as suits the moment. we become jailed by our ideas,beliefs and concepts and this is where we start struggling to free ourselves of ourselves. but you still wear these things as is appropriate, before i was enlightened i ate my lunch sitting in traffic on my way to pick up my dry cleaning,after i became enlightened i ate my lunch sitting in traffic on my way to pick up my dry cleaning
          • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

            Mon, August 27, 2007 - 6:36 PM
            Asa, there is simply no way to go beyond conceptual processing, and by stating that it IS possible, you are simply revealing that you are not aware of what is going on inside of you, which I might add is simply the state of the human condition, even those thought of enlightened gurus and masters. Nobody gets a pass.

            This in no way implies that the world is a hostile place (how you said it was often perceived), yet the world is undeniably a place that absolutely and undeniable demands our moment-to-moment attention (whether we are aware of it or not). To perceive the world as 'hostile' or 'not hostile' is an after-the-fact characterization of our conceptual framework, and to make any such distinction is clearly an example of conceptual processing.

            Everything entering our senses, every thought we have, every word we write, every state we experience entails more processing and conceptualization than any human (thought to be enlightened or not) can even begin to comprehend, and the tip of the iceberg we're privy to is so insignificant that it barely exists.

            And though it may appear possible to some degree to herd your thoughts (if you want to give some credence to the concept of free will), if you actually stopped thinking and conceptualizing and adjusting to your environment you'd be dead before you got to the end of this sentence.
  • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

    Thu, December 13, 2007 - 10:25 AM
    Common misconceptions (IMHO):

    - it is "A Good Thing".

    - it is something to strive for.

    - It is pleasant (or even blissful).
    • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

      Thu, December 13, 2007 - 11:32 AM
      Certainly isn't pleasant at times is it?! The moments of true clarity I've had have often forced me to completely go against my grain for any sort of positive change to occur in my life or someone's life close to mine.

      - it is something to strive for.

      Right on.. It's a word with damn vague meaning. Honesty is something more to 'strive' for. imo. Reading to my kids 6 nights instead of 3 is something to 'strive' for. I think "Enlightenment" is a bi-product of finding our Self. I find my self through giving more and taking less, but it's not at all in my nature. I'm one selfish lass sometimes.

      K
  • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

    Mon, March 3, 2008 - 2:03 AM
    That it will stop death and suffering specifically for you. I suspect it may change its meaning but it will still happen.
    • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

      Mon, March 3, 2008 - 3:28 AM
      yeah I think a common misconception is that enlightenment is a good thing...

      I'm not saying it's a bad thing but when you switch on the lights there's nothing to see but the monsters...
      • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

        Mon, March 3, 2008 - 8:05 AM
        "good"

        "bad"

        ???????????????????

        i thought everything simply

        is

        OMG
        • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

          Mon, March 3, 2008 - 11:32 PM
          <Aur-e-lia: "..i thought everything simply is.."

          There is a thought experiment which I find very helpful. Someone called Life crushes your leg. Very painful. Sure, the "you" is an illusion, but when death comes that "you" will still scream, cry, and (when gangrene sets in) eventually die.

          And if you don't I'll personally come over and chop off your other leg.
          • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

            Tue, March 4, 2008 - 2:03 AM
            "One cannot experience ten thousand joys without experiencing ten thousand sorrows." -Buddha
            • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

              Tue, March 4, 2008 - 2:04 AM
              Aint duality a Bitch?!? ~8)
              • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

                Tue, March 4, 2008 - 2:22 AM
                • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

                  Thu, March 13, 2008 - 6:14 PM

                  om my God-ness, this Nithyananda has truly awakened through the Nirvikalpa Samadhi...he's about the first person I've seen on youtube that I can perceive through my mind's eye that he has truly awakened through Nirvikalpa Samadhi.

                  Though he is still in the emotional patterns of India... the very close-nit co-dependent connections... those which prevent people to be self-inspired, self-engaged, self-referencing.... he's got his "gig" though he will lead people to experiences and awakening, but he will need "therapy" to understand co-dependence... though as long as he's got followers, he'll likely not go further either.
              • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

                Tue, March 4, 2008 - 11:55 AM
                <bkllgh: "Aint duality a Bitch?!? ">

                who are you calling a bitch?
                • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

                  Tue, March 11, 2008 - 9:19 PM

                  Francesco, you have found the True Intelligence, the Seed of Wit in the midst of Stupidity
                  hence you had to first leave your Intellect and return to your Stupidity... and there out of Stillness you found Intelligence
                  and they called your words as Wit - Yes this Master Me talking :-) oh how deeply wrong you are to take my words as cynicism's... I speak only truthfully... but to interpret my true message you must read without having any connotations! deeply understand what I say... and you will step right out like me... keep falling baby

                  p.s. for those that didn't get it... when bkllgh says "Aint duality a Bitch?!?" he demonstrated that he is fully functioning from the Duality state... as his words are addressed to a "you" and beginning with a "who" meaning already intelligence is lacking... so the great Master Francesco with his amazing Wit deep from the belly of Stillness.... spoke this Truth powered words of Awakening ... "who are you calling a bitch?" what Saint Francesco just did was to "bitch" slap Mr. bkllgh back out of the Stupidity-of-Intellect (throw throw throw in a loop, gently down the toilet, melody melody, life's but a flush!) called Duality

                  did I just say something? huh?

                  Oh God Beautiful... Nut's and Beautiful... lalalalalala
            • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

              Tue, March 4, 2008 - 1:28 PM
              I had some thoughts regarding this idea from this Buddha Sid..

              Seems to me he spent his time neutralising everything in his experience, joyful AND sorrowful...

              What if what is commonly taught about him is demonstrating the ability to 'undo' but not to 'do'?

              What if this type of enlightenment is actually a kind of 'step 1' to re-becoming 1.... I think it must be, I mean Sid smiled a lot right?

              ;)
              • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

                Tue, March 11, 2008 - 9:08 PM

                ahh Nick... "What if what is commonly taught about him is demonstrating the ability to 'undo' but not to 'do'? "

                dude, you Know :-) I see you! :-)

                do you realize how much deeper what you have just said is?

                ability to undo but not do...
                that is the seed for determinism (i.e. opposite of free-will) in terms of all egoic selves
                means as soon the Journey returning to Self begins, so life will be pre-determined...
                pre-determined and destined back to Self the Become One

                ahh yes... don't you dare take one step into the Tavern of Ruin.... once you do, there is NO turning back hahahahahaha

                that's the Madness's way of saying Namaskar
            • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

              Tue, March 11, 2008 - 9:28 PM

              Gently! This is true Jubal "One cannot experience ten thousand joys without experiencing ten thousand sorrows."

              That's why that whirly mad and old professor named Rumi wrote that poem about "waking up in death Laughing"... since Rumi spent his whole life Crying in Heart Whirls of Pain from Separation from His Beloved... Beloved being the even crazier Shams

              damn... what? huh?! yess! ahhh! 'ehm
              namaskar
  • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

    Fri, March 7, 2008 - 8:46 PM
    Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

    Hmmm.... That it exists?
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

      Fri, March 7, 2008 - 11:54 PM
      hmmmm....how about:

      That there is such a thing...and that is possible to complete.
      • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

        Sat, March 8, 2008 - 3:18 AM
        absolutely...

        I did it for a while...

        it is quite a simple process...

        you grow your hair and a bit of a beard and smoke some pot whilst being t-total celibate and veggie...

        in fact I'm still doing it except for the hair and the pot...

        but without the pot it just feels like total crap... hahaha
        • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

          Sat, March 8, 2008 - 12:51 PM
          Why are you guys on an Enlightenment board if you "believe" that there is no such thing? Seriously though? *raises eyebrow*

          "Words can never convey the beauty of a tree;

          to understand it, you must see it with your own eyes.

          Language cannot capture the melody of a song;

          to understand it, you must hear it with your own ears.

          So it is with the Tao:

          the only way to understand it is to directly experience it.



          The subtle truth of the universe is unsayable and unthinkable.

          Therefore the highest teachings are wordless.

          My own words are not the medicine, but a prescription;

          not the destination, but a map to help you reach it.

          When you get there, quiet your mind and close your mouth.

          Don't analyze the Tao.

          Strive instead to live it:
          silently, undividedly, with your whole harmonious being."

          -Lao Tzu
          • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

            Sat, March 8, 2008 - 12:51 PM
            The Tao doesn't come and go.

            It is always present everywhere, just like the sky.

            If your mind is clouded, you won't see it, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.



            All misery is created by the activity of the mind.

            Can you let go of words and ideas, attitudes and expectations?

            If so, then the Tao will loom into view.

            Can you be still and look inside?

            If so, then you will see that the truth is always available, and always responsive.

            -Lao Tzu
      • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

        Sat, March 8, 2008 - 1:32 PM

        True liberation means dissolving the illusion of enlightenment.
        • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

          Sat, March 8, 2008 - 10:33 PM
          The illusion is that it's something to attain...

          Enlightenment is your true nature ~8)
          • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

            Sun, March 9, 2008 - 7:35 AM
            **The illusion is that it's something to attain... Enlightenment is your true nature**

            Wrong. The illusion is your belief that you have a "true nature," as opposed to -- what? -- your "false nature"?
            • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

              Mon, March 10, 2008 - 6:24 PM
              Deke: The Truth is beyond belief ~8)

              Enlightenment simply IS...

              I speak from experiential Knowledge... No beliefs necessary... ~8)
              • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

                Tue, March 11, 2008 - 7:37 AM
                **I speak from experiential Knowledge... No beliefs necessary**

                Yes, I understand that is what you believe -- that you have experienced, or will experience, something you call "enlightenment."

                Or do you claim that you constantly experience "full enlightenment" at all times?

                In any case, no matter where you are speaking "from," the fact is: you are speaking...

                "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know."

                -- Lao Tzu
                • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

                  Tue, March 11, 2008 - 3:00 PM

                  Deke,
                  Lau Tzu spoke

                  Stillness Speaks

                  The pure-state of Knowing is beyond-mind i.e. the no-mind where Essence is cognizant of itself.

                  This cognizance takes place within the body/mind vessel. After this "happening" eventually one returns to ego-consciousness.

                  The memory brain cells recorded the experience. Now the mind/body begin to learn and understand from Essence and convert that through words.

                  It is also possible for Stillness to speak verbally through a person. When this is happening, there is also a "Transmission" happening. That which is Awake serves as a remembrance for the Essence in others to wake up.

                  At some point of maturity, the individual more or less begins developing the ability to "surf"/switch between the two... or, to just surrender... but before the surrender, a whole lot of "surfing" happens first.

                  There's a whole lot of misconceptions, and there will continue to be. The veils of ignorance are thick... if they were not thick there would not be this me and you, this creation et all.

                  Essence was content of itself when it was able to trick itself into being the multiplicity... and so it rested "on the seventh day"

                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Exactly...

                    Tue, March 11, 2008 - 8:59 PM
                    Thank you Ramiel... Beautifully put... When one is speaking truth is is not the Ego speaking... You are but a channel for source... Here's some truth that came through me last summer...

                    "The Universal or Big mind simply Knows without thinking...

                    The Ego or little mind simply thinks without Knowing...

                    Tell your little mind to shut the fuck up."

                    -Tulku JuBaL

                    *BOWS DEEPLY*
                    • Re: Exactly...

                      Tue, March 11, 2008 - 9:41 PM

                      Jubal, do not bow so deeply before Me... God can never reach God... no matter how hard he tries he'll only bump bellys!! hahaha!

                      Hmm so let's see with Absolute Self and how it shall translate and regurgitate your translations from Source



                      Essence within Jubal "The Universal or Big mind simply Knows without thinking...

                      hmm yeah He... Aight this be True.... Knowing comes first, Understanding comes second, Thinking starts third and never stops! that's why the void is infinite... because THINKING NEVER STOP!... so void is always one step beyond thought!


                      Essence within Jubal The Ego or little mind simply thinks without Knowing...

                      this being YaHee again... yep... it works like this starting out as Me One...
                      Subtle Thoughts rise from that Black Ocean named Stillness
                      they are full of Blossoms, New, and Omnicient Thoughts arise... later insulted as Intuition and Psychicism

                      sub-thoughts rise from the first 'echo' from the Present moment onto the memory cells of the brain recording and later projecting this Virtual Reality within the brain... then our impression and understanding from this Virtual Reality where thoughts begin an infinite journey of always bouncing back and never going through the shield back to the Present moment... hence this link from the Pre-Eternity to the Post-Eternity

                      oh God... let's move to next one... this one will keep going other wise and God needs sleep too... his vessel might!

                      Essence within Jubal "Tell your little mind to shut the fuck up."

                      little mind, little mind, where are you ? little mind, little mind, I can never find you!
                      little mind, little mind, what happened to you? little mind, little mind, I can't find you dammit!
                      little mind, little mind, even God has given up searching for you!


                      just for you conscious selves... I'm writing ... though I'm in Samadhi
                      • Re: Exactly...

                        Tue, March 11, 2008 - 10:23 PM

                        welcome to enlightenment 101 thread :-) the first course in realizing your Stupidity

                        children, settle down now! hey! stop that!

                        The first less of the day kids...
                        "God is FUCKING SMART!"

                        That's right kids... God is so FUCKING smart that he just made a full sentence with God Fucking Smart-Asses like you! (purely humor, don't burn me please!... that's already happened to Me enough Many Times!)... God's Ass is very sensitive

                        well.... this is kind of how this Thread feels like...
                        a whole LOT of "half baked" and confused folks who have had a few glimpses of Awakening and non have yet truly woken up
                        if you have fully woken up... it would be impossible for you to take offense to anything I'm saying you dumb shit!
                        and yes, if I was reading someone else having written this post... I would be fully neutral to the words just states as there are no triggers at this time within me... nothing to laugh or offense about... since who is here to laugh or get offended? here as in no body is here, hands are typing... consciousness is super

                        do I dare submit?
                        • hehe... Nice...

                          Tue, March 11, 2008 - 10:30 PM
                          All there is is Self... Who am I bowing to? ~8P

                          Good stuff by the way... ~8)
                          • Ah...

                            Wed, March 12, 2008 - 6:11 AM
                            ...the gentle murmur of babbling little minds, smug in the conceit of their "enlightenment"...
                            • Re: Ah...

                              Wed, March 12, 2008 - 9:27 AM

                              Deke,

                              You are quick to realize you were on the loosing side... quickly you switch sides, to the other end of Duality thinking now you can prevent yourself from embarrassment.... God forbid if you became embarrassed and realized your own Stupidity you just may get It!... please continue protecting your Ego and keeping pointing towards "their" and "them"...

                              It takes someone with BALLS to have Humility and admit their own Stupidity :-)


                              • Re: Ah...

                                Wed, March 12, 2008 - 1:05 PM
                                Wait... What is this I feel?

                                It feels like something is opening up inside of me... some kind of channel for... Could it be? Yes! It's the Voice of God! And the Voice sayeth:

                                "ALL CONCEPTIONS ABOUT ENLIGHTENMENT ARE MISCONCEPTIONS!

                                ...including everything that Jubal and Ramiel say, so ignore those charlatans, who know Me not!"
                                • Re: Ah...

                                  Wed, March 12, 2008 - 1:23 PM

                                  Very Good Deke :-)

                                  very very good :-)

                                  Happy for you... "bitch slaps" are sometimes needed, Charlatans are sometimes needed as catalysts

                                  after all... who would we be without thorns

                                  we must become the soft rose in ever-fragrant BLOOM... but this can only be when the this BLOOM happens beyond the reach of the mind...

                                  as such... that Rose is like that of Ocean

                                  kids will throw rocks at the Ocean, as Mind's will attack each other...

                                  The Ocean barely touched... the ROSE remains in full BLOOM untouched


                                • Re: Ah...

                                  Wed, March 12, 2008 - 11:29 PM
                                  "ALL CONCEPTIONS ABOUT ENLIGHTENMENT ARE MISCONCEPTIONS!

                                  ...including everything that Jubal and Ramiel say, so ignore those charlatans, who know Me not!"

                                  Well then Deke... That of course would include your conceptions about Enlightenment as well... If fact what that truly says it that all conceptions but God's Conceptions are inherently false... I Would agree ~8)
                                  In fact if you could get past your own preconceptions for a second you would realize that this is exactly what Remiel and I have been saying... Of course all of the Truth we've said we haven't relay said... Merely channeled ~8)

                                  "Finally, everything I've told you is "channeled." That way, if you don't like it, it's not my fault. But, remember: Enlightenment is not a bureaucracy, so you don't have to go through channels."
                                  -Swami Beyondananda
                                  • Re: Ah...

                                    Thu, March 13, 2008 - 9:31 AM
                                    It's always enlightening to see how petty, rude, defensive and obnoxious the self-styled "enlightened" can be... not to mention condescending, patronizing, and self-aggrandizing...
                                    • Re: Ah...

                                      Thu, March 13, 2008 - 5:51 PM

                                      Deke...

                                      start looking at yourself

                                      you are being "triggered"

                                      who is being triggered? that... the part of your that is capable of feeling condescended, patronized, and of course living in agony

                                      This whole thread is just post after post of little stupid comments... how many truly he-art-ful, humble posts do you see?

                                      If you would like to see different responses... you can begin by not being condescending, patronizing, and self-agonizing

                                      Deke, scroll up, and begin reading from your first post... inquire within about what made you write the words you wrote in each one...
                                      you know ... the process of "self inquiry" "self examination" and of course this is all "retrospection"

                                    • Re: Ah...

                                      Thu, March 13, 2008 - 5:53 PM

                                      Zeke,

                                      do you think someday, your ego could ever loose? I mean do you think you could ever loose for the first time ever?

                                      that's what it'll take

                                      can you be a looser baby?

                                      I'm a looser baby... so why don't you kill me :-)
                                    • Re: Ah...

                                      Thu, March 13, 2008 - 11:02 PM
                                      "It's always enlightening to see how petty, rude, defensive and obnoxious the self-styled "enlightened" can be... not to mention condescending, patronizing, and self-aggrandizing..."

                                      LOL! There is only Self... So who am I being "condescending, patronizing, and self-aggrandizing..." towards? Myself? That would be pretty ridiculous really... I find it interesting that you would project this... In fact I find it interesting that this is the most common thing I have projected at me in this particular tribe... What is "condescending, patronizing, and self-aggrandizing..." about my posts? The smiley faces? ~8) Do they seem smug to you? lol! I'm really quite curious as in most other Tribes people tend to thank me for illuminating the Truth. It's only in the Enlightenment tribes that I am attacked for it... And always by people who vehemently preach about anti-enlightenment...
                                      Let me lay it down for you... To one who has realized the Truth the is no self and other... Only Self... There is no one else... Only the One... Therefore it is impossible for any thing to be better or higher than any other thing as it is all God.
                                      SAT KARTAR
                                      "God is the only Truth"
                                      *BOWS*
                                      • Re: Ah...

                                        Fri, March 14, 2008 - 5:45 AM
                                        Well, Jubal, let's see... Petty? Check. Rude? Check. Defensive? Check. Obnoxious? Check. Condescending? Yup. Patronizing? Uh-huh. Self-Aggrandizing. Oh yeah. Congratulations! You scored 100%! You are now eligible for the Enlightened A-hole Hall of Fame!

                                        Oh... I feel the Voice of God welling up inside me again... And the Voice of God sayeth:

                                        "EVERYTHING YOU ARE BEING HANDED IN THIS MOMENT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU NEED!"

                                        Have a nice day. ~8)
                                        • Re: Ah souls...

                                          Fri, March 14, 2008 - 6:22 AM
                                          it's all getting to be a bit much... hahaha

                                          it's like enlightenment is synonymous with some kind of competition about who can be the most oppressively annoying... hahaha

                                          my own personal "enlightenment" was a much simpler thing along the lines of how it might be better to smoke pot and be veggie than to sustain the all pervasive booze/meat/war based economy but unfortunately I don't actually have any pot so that personal enlightenment has kind of got stuck at the "world sucks" paradox which apparently doesn't clear up unless a big zap of unconditional love happens at death...

                                          who knows...?

                                          but it would seem to be true that logical analysis of idiocy doesn't miraculously transform it into anything less idiotic and probably makes it worse and thus the true sages are in fact the annoying ones who remind you that you should let go and embrace the all that is with all the mindless apathy you can muster... OM G

                                          www.youtube.com/watch

                                          and indeed may a lovely day be had by all of it... :)
                                        • Re: Ah...

                                          Fri, March 14, 2008 - 8:41 PM
                                          "Well, Jubal, let's see... Petty? Check. Rude? Check. Defensive? Check. Obnoxious? Check. Condescending? Yup. Patronizing? Uh-huh. Self-Aggrandizing. Oh yeah. Congratulations! You scored 100%! You are now eligible for the Enlightened A-hole Hall of Fame! "

                                          We are all reflections of our own projections Deke... And you my friend are reflecting what you're projecting quite clearly... ~8)

                                          "EVERYTHING YOU ARE BEING HANDED IN THIS MOMENT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU NEED!"

                                          You should listen to that voice Deke ~8)
                                          • Re: Ah...

                                            Fri, March 14, 2008 - 8:45 PM
                                            Oh... and just in case you didn't catch it the first time I posted it ~8)

                                            "Love is the only thing that will heal your pain... Spreading your pain will just make it worse as you merely spread it to yourself... All there is is Self... The same goes for spreading your fear, frustration, confusion, ect..
                                            Though people sure seem intent on doing so on these message boards... The classic I'll make myself feel better by making everyone else hurt syndrome"
                                            • Re: Ah...

                                              Fri, March 14, 2008 - 10:03 PM
                                              What amazing persistence! Your induction is a virtual certainty... Now if only --

                                              We interrupt this message for a word from the Voice of God.

                                              And the Voice of God sayeth:

                                              I AM NEITHER EGO NOR NON-EGO.
                                              I AM NEITHER SELF NOR NOT-SELF.
                                              I AM NEITHER DUALITY NOR NON-DUALITY.
                                              I AM NEITHER SEPARATION NOR NON-SEPARATION.
                                              I AM NEITHER RELATIVE NOR ABSOLUTE.
                                              I AM NEITHER FINITE NOR INFINITE.
                                              I AM NEITHER SENSE NOR NONSENSE.
                                              I AM NEITHER ILLUSION NOR REALITY.
                                              I AM NEITHER 'FALSE NATURE' NOR 'TRUE NATURE.'
                                              I AM NEITHER 'LITTLE MIND' NOR 'BIG MIND.'
                                              I AM NEITHER THINKING NOR KNOWING.
                                              I AM NEITHER SLEEPING NOR WAKING.
                                              I AM NEITHER SORROW NOR JOY.
                                              I AM NEITHER PAIN NOR BLISS.
                                              I AM NEITHER FEAR NOR LOVE.

                                              BECAUSE I AM ALL, THERE IS NOTHING I AM NOT --
                                              I AM NEITHER ONE NOR THE OTHER ALONE.

                                              YET SOME, SUCH AS JUBAL, WOULD SEEK TO KNOW ME
                                              ONLY THROUGH ONE AND NOT THE OTHER --
                                              THIS IS NOT THE WAY.
                                              • Re: Ah...

                                                Fri, March 14, 2008 - 11:57 PM
                                                No need to shout Deke... ~8)

                                                You know I got a personal message from another tribe member today saying he though you should be banned from the tribe...

                                                I think I'm starting to understand why you only have 4 friends...

                                                Keep talkin shit Deke... That's obviously what you're good at... Though it certainly won't win you many friends... And ultimately all the shit you talk you talk about yourself as there is no 'other'... Why you treat yourself that way Deke?

                                                and the voice echoed...

                                                "I AM BOTH EGO AND NON-EGO.
                                                I AM BOTH SELF AND NOT-SELF.
                                                I AM BOTH DUALITY AND NON-DUALITY.
                                                I AM BOTH SEPARATION AND NON-SEPARATION.
                                                I AM BOTH RELATIVE AND ABSOLUTE.
                                                I AM BOTH FINITE AND INFINITE.
                                                I AM BOTH SENSE AND NONSENSE.
                                                I AM BOTH ILLUSION AND REALITY.
                                                I AM BOTH 'FALSE NATURE' AND 'TRUE NATURE.'
                                                I AM BOTH 'LITTLE MIND' AND 'BIG MIND.'
                                                I AM BOTH THINKING AND KNOWING.
                                                I AM BOTH SLEEPING AND WAKING.
                                                I AM BOTH SORROW AND JOY.
                                                I AM BOTH PAIN AND BLISS.
                                                I AM BOTH FEAR AND LOVE.


                                                BECAUSE I AM ALL, THERE IS NOTHING I AM NOT --
                                                I AM THE ONE THERE IS NO OTHER. I AM"
                                                • Re: Ah...

                                                  Sat, March 15, 2008 - 9:20 AM
                                                  Jubal, you are truly hilarious... I can't tell you how much I enjoy your wacky BS.

                                                  **You know I got a personal message from another tribe member today saying he though you should be banned from the tribe...**

                                                  This is a very enlightened statement, suggesting "turnabout is fair play" -- since I'm sure you know that messages like that have been circulating about YOU for ages...

                                                  **I think I'm starting to understand why you only have 4 friends...**

                                                  Once again, Jubal, your kindness and compassion are exceeded only by your wisdom -- which is nil. Since it probably wouldn't occur to you on the basis of your own personal experience, let me say this: I spend very little time on Tribe, because I have real world friends who occupy most of my time. And, as far as I'm concerned, the value of friendship lies in quality, not quantity.

                                                  **Keep talkin shit Deke... That's obviously what you're good at... Though it certainly won't win you many friends...**

                                                  Call it what you will. I'm not here to win friends, which is why I turned down your "friend request." In case you missed it, I'm here because God sent me here to deliver exactly what YOU need in this moment, Jubal!

                                                  **ultimately all the shit you talk you talk about yourself as there is no 'other'**

                                                  Uh-oh, time for me to step aside and let the Voice of God present to you a message that you keep missing time and time again --

                                                  And the Voice of God sayeth:

                                                  "THERE IS NO 'ONE' WITHOUT THE 'OTHER' -- NEVER WAS, NEVER WILL BE -- AS ONE AND THE OTHER ARISE ONLY IN MUTUAL INTERDEPENDENCE, WHICH YOU MAY CALL 'LOVE'!"

                                                  In truth, Jubal, I bear you no ill will -- I sincerely hope that you will someday climb down from your pompous high horse and accept your humanity with gratitude and joy.

                                                  And I will leave the last word to you, since your ego compels you to take it...

                                                  Peace Out.


                                              • Re: Ah...

                                                Sat, March 15, 2008 - 12:15 AM

                                                I think we're getting close to popping a zit
                                                • Re: Ah...

                                                  Sat, March 15, 2008 - 12:41 AM
                                                  Do you think there's enough in there to come out ;-)
                                                  • I'm Stupid... how about you?

                                                    Sat, March 15, 2008 - 4:08 AM

                                                    Did I ever tell you I just became Stupid!?

                                                    I can teach you, all of you! come... let us realize our Stupidity! These are those children's games that adults (smart intellects) can't play...

                                                    there is much freedom here... you see, the land/language of enlightenment is filled with filth...

                                                    Let's go where to merely enter the Realm... you must enter through the ego-grinder (the needle of an eye?)... if you make it alive on the other end... well.. congratulations... you are one of us! You are Stupid just like me!

                                                    now we got them looking at a mirror with a magnifying glass... they think their looking at someone else's zits... pop that Zitty... go ahead you can do this!... you see there is no end... it's either escape (unsubscribe), ignorance (build thicker ego), or the blushing suicide!

                                                    Blushing suicide is the plank headed towards the shark filled ocean of Stupidity

                                                    Oh Essence of Stupidity... no one has heard me but You!


                                                    I'm Stupid... how about you?
                        • Re: veal

                          Wed, March 12, 2008 - 5:31 AM
                          "the first course in realizing your Stupidity"

                          well it seems stupidity is abundant and most generously served here... hahaha
                          • Re: veal

                            Wed, March 12, 2008 - 11:40 PM

                            Orpheus, I'm afraid you didn't understand my

                            there is truly great significance to stupidity!

                            see.... intellect thinks it is very smart... it's logical and booky... it has a sense of self... it gets offended and tries to protect it self... it looks for those that have similar beliefs and ideas so it can further create this egoic shell for itself

                            now stupidity! how blissful stupidity is... stupidity is Divine! madness is divine too! why?
                            well because stupidity will take you out of your reason and intellect

                            and there in the midst of stupidity you will all of a sudden in up lost
                            you will be like... where the hell am I?
                            who the hell am I?
                            you will realize there's no one left to ask these questions...
                            you will know that you do not know... and if you realize this, you have realized your own Stupidity!

                            and as such... when you realize your own Stupidity... your mind stops trying to figure things out..
                            stillness all of a sudden is given space
                            and when stillness speaks having risen from the graveyard of Stupidity
                            it shall be called "wit"

                            be Stupid you smart ones!
                            • Re: veal

                              Thu, March 13, 2008 - 12:20 AM

                              more accurately put, be Stupid you dumb-Wits! within this Stupidity you will come to know all sorts of Truths
                              • Re: veal

                                Thu, March 13, 2008 - 2:41 AM
                                or not
                                • Re: veal

                                  Thu, March 13, 2008 - 3:25 AM

                                  Bill, why not Stupidity over Enlightenment? does the word "Stupidity" bother the ego's preference? It probably speaks more truthfully about Enlightenment's view on Ego/Ignorance/mis-understanding-of-self

                                  And, I realize people have misconceptions when someone says be Stupid... way too many Guru's have hypnotized their students to just close their eyes and become blind slaves to these "Guru's"

                                  Let me clarify in all seriousness... you know the "bliss" gets in the way sometimes...
                                  stupidity has a "secret quality"
                                  it shares this "secret quality" this "secret ingredient" which also exists in Humor, Innocent, Laughter, Madness

                                  Do you know what I mean?

                                  It's when you dare to drop your Intellect... when you dare to drop the "Guardian" the one who says do this, don't do that, this is good, that is bad... etc.

                                  I know you follow my gist

                                  It is now my style for time being to mix non-sense in... I should "Non-sense" into the list... as most words are non-sense
                                  realizing that "non-sense" is "non-sense" and even words that make sense are "non-sense" when it comes to realizing your self... that is another way

                                  of course, there, are, also, those, gaps, , , , , bet weeen words

                                  and the gap.. gosh it's so tiny... the one in between balance... in between where the breath floats without having turned back the other way yet

                                  there's lots of these

                                  but.. Stupidity is a great gross one to start from

                                  it's really needed... we need much more real Stupidity in this world... not the dumb ones that people are being cruel from
                                  I mean the Stupidity filled with love, innocence, laughter, madness, heart, rebelliousness, courage

                                  The "positive" side of Stupidity is that as soon as you actively decide to be Stupid for a bit... you have already admitted "you do not know, and for the duration of the Stupidity-session you will continue to not know" ... as such... it gives the EGO a safe space to try creating "Sacred Space"

                                  it's a trick

                                  Sacred is when a space is left as space... un-contaminated by thoughts/mind/ego
                                  within Sacred Space is Essence

                            • Re: veal

                              Thu, March 13, 2008 - 2:43 AM
                              ramiel and jubal...

                              it is not my intention here to be policed by fools...

                              all I can try to point out is that if you are me then I am deluded idiots talking drivel...
                              • Re: veal

                                Thu, March 13, 2008 - 3:31 AM

                                orpheus orpheus when will you morpheus and figure out what is being said to you?

                                I have spoken only in love... I'm not being sarcastic either (just want to make sure you get me)

                                though... what can I do? in all seriousness... enlightenment can't be understood with seriousness!

                                there is an element of stepping out... so let's go for a ride and step out of the conventional language

                                a Rose isn't a Rose! they call this a "rose"... it is a "this" and it "was" even before "this" in the NOW where there was none of "this" (non-sense)

                                may light fill your yellow-tele-belly and beam out of the antenna on your head!
                                • Re: veal

                                  Thu, March 13, 2008 - 3:42 AM
                                  try and get this...

                                  you proclaim to be talking nonsense - which is a verifiable and correct statement...

                                  so be it...

                                  carry on...
                                  • Re: veal

                                    Thu, March 13, 2008 - 8:35 AM
                                    orpheus, I shall break it down further for you

                                    if you read it from the intellect and egoic consciousness...it will remain as non-sense

                                    just as meditation is about going beyond the senses... so meditation is also non-sense

                                    Truth itself is non-sense... no-sense can be made of it

                                    if you read it from Wakeful consciousness, there would be humor/wit and oh's an ah's!
                                    • Re: veal

                                      Thu, March 13, 2008 - 9:02 AM
                                      you can explain the joke as much as you like but it's not funny and it's not clever...

                                      except maybe to you...

                                      which is ok...

                                      go with it and enjoy...

                                      there are perhaps lots of people who can read the nonsense you write as if it is subliminal wisdom from the source...

                                      but not me...

                                      not today thankyou...
                                      • Re: veal

                                        Thu, March 13, 2008 - 11:33 PM

                                        orpheus,

                                        fair enough...

                                        it's not about it being funny
                                        it's not about it being clever

                                        however... a question for you...

                                        orpheus, do you think it is possible for us to shake hands?
                                      • Re: veal

                                        Sun, March 16, 2008 - 4:32 PM
                                        sometime, somewhere, somehow you will look backwards, inward and recognize yourself as the source of attention. reflections in mirrors, in the eyes of men, how much reality do they have? they have only the reality that you, the source of attention give them. we are forever forgetting and trying to fill our hungers with pictures of things. if you are cold how warming is a picture of the sun, how filling pictures of food? images, reflections reflecting from infinity in and on and as the no-thing
  • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

    Sun, November 16, 2008 - 1:18 AM
    LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    So this thread is still being rolled over, months later. Groovy. Gotta LOVE the Enlightened stabs and slants at folks. All in the name of 'Higher Understanding'.

    Most of you should have answered the initial question as follows:

    "The most common misconception about Enlightenment is that I don't know everything. In fact, I do. And you should listen to me, else I will Enlightenedly shove my intellectual foot up your proverbial dumb ass. Alternatively, I may run around in circles until my Enlightened foot prints are no longer recognizeable and your proverbial dumb ass is thoroughly confused. Which of course, would be because you are a lower life form than I. Simpleton" --- recommence circular tripe talk.

    That's pretty much what I've read here since I've been absent.
    • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

      Sat, November 22, 2008 - 9:29 PM
      Sometimes I'm not sure whether I like the Enlightenment tribes more because I love God (impersonal) or just a good laugh! (ROFLOL! - Katrina)
      • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

        Sun, November 23, 2008 - 3:55 PM
        enlightment may contain many things but the state of enlightment, it`s essence is of and not different from the no thing ground of all things, being as it is no thing what can possibly be said about it? it can only be "pointed" at and that by negation.
      • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

        Tue, November 25, 2008 - 9:43 AM
        the willingness to lighten up!
        • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

          Tue, November 25, 2008 - 9:47 AM
          When it comes to enlightenment, every conception is a misconception... because enlightenment is not what you think!
          • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

            Tue, November 25, 2008 - 9:51 AM
            hehehe.. ;)

            that is unless what is not thought is simply another form of thought.
            • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

              Tue, November 25, 2008 - 11:45 AM
              a curious circle you would present. surely you would agree that "enlightment" is well beyond thought and the mind that produces thought. mind cannot transcend itself, it can only chase itself in ever more complex labyrinths. mind is hardly the source and or the ground of "enlightment" i e God
              • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

                Tue, November 25, 2008 - 11:50 AM
                I am challenging the defintion of 'thought', not from a position of knowing some absolute truth.. simply the idea that if you can be aware of silent awareness of 'god', is that silent awareness not also an idea?

                Maybe only from the perspective of mind is this true, yet.. yet.. hehe..

                is 'it' not all the mind of 'god'? (all that is)

                semantics maybe.

                from my zen perspective.. 'nothing is something'.. non existence cannot be experienced.
                • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

                  Tue, November 25, 2008 - 7:23 PM
                  The Idea of "God" is something we lay on top of spiritual experience. The most deeply, profoundly spiritual people lay ideas of everything else, gently, if at all, on top of an experience of God, satori, nirvana, whatever you want to call it. The least spiritual people, especially those emphatically religious, have God most only as an idea, and so must defend that idea to the death, lest they lose their (idea) God! I have a saying - "In the beginning, was the Idea, and the Idea was with God, until the Idea became God!" See the difference? Our mind is something we lay on top of our present experience AND our timeless awareness. It's a cliche to say that "our mind is not us" but it's not. Discovering that within us, and within all of our experiences, is all there really is in life. I'm still working at it. Ideas are only, and at best, a tool and crude guide post in such awareness and pursuit. Namaste
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

                    Tue, November 25, 2008 - 8:03 PM
                    Hey Ol soul,

                    Thanks for sharing your in-sight.

                    There is a subtle difference in what I am saying and what I think you think I am saying..

                    I am saying that there is nothing except ideas. The nature of reality itself is creation and creation itself is simply 'idea'.

                    'mind' for me is a kind of processing 'above' base reality.. almost a 'fathoming out' of what already is.. the idea attempting to create ideas about the idea.. it is like attempting to measure your memory with your memory. ultimately unnecessary and futile.. resistance to the natural state.

                    Our mind is a creation and you can, through increased self awareness witness it as such. you can witness your entire persona as a set of ideas built upon the foundation of awareness.. I am simply saying that the definition of that awareness, is perhaps very similar to an idea in and of itself. I think a large part of the co-fusion here is the limitation of our language to describe such things.. or maybe not.

                    Do I really need to do this? no..

                    Source is Infinity and as such, as many people often share, any attempt to label it is perhaps pointless. its still interesting to explore though. 'being' does not require ideas.. yet it is perhaps still an idea..

                    lol

                    8D
                    • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

                      Wed, November 26, 2008 - 9:49 PM
                      Nick,
                      I'll go with you on that, and everything else you've said too. Speaking mostly for myself, I think we're in that squishy middle ground between ideas and subtle awareness of what those ideas are actually like in less-descript (or nondescript) ways of being and experiencing (regardless of what you or I call them). You nailed it in talking about ideas as if in the mind of God (co-creation, the God in us individually and collectively), and yet we are/can be the observer of all of that!

                      One of the reasons I like the Kundalini Yoga tribe, even though I know fairly little about it, is that the people there who are really into it talk about their experiences as much or more as they "are", than as they "think" they should be... Generally in "spiritual" subjects and sub-topics, people get hung up on language and semantics and contexts and concepts forgetting that it all either connects us or separates us, as we each allow (they do that in the KY tribe too, but the natural focus in on energy and what it's doing, or not doing). As for me, I like to prattle on on this subject as best I can, to keep it nearer my heart than my head (as if talking about enlightenment will get it there!). I like what the Buddha said, "ultimately, doctrine is unimportant"... Question for you - what does that "base reality" feel like to you?
                      • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

                        Thu, November 27, 2008 - 4:59 AM
                        hehe.. we are all already enlightened, just a case of aligning with that truth!

                        What does the base reality feel like?

                        Well, it feels as it always does.. however, it is possible to align with 'all that is' via the heart.. The mind can be attuned to the heart and that can feel like.. well, heaven!! Literally.

                        Loving, glowing, exciting, peaceful.. all these words describe it to some extent. What is it that prevents me from being in that state all the time? only paranoia!
                        • Re: common misconceptions about enlightenment

                          Thu, November 27, 2008 - 6:06 AM
                          hmm.. having 'thought' about my reply here a bit further.. I will add that what I am describing is certainly possible, I know as I have found it 'up the crown'..

                          however, is that the true base reality? It is certainly a potential..

                          the most I can say about the true base reality is that it is neutral and totally unbiased. This is essentially unconditional love... however, it would perhaps be a bit tricky to describe what base reality is 'like' without speaking from only that perspective.. which, while human, may be a bit tricky... I still feel it is love based though.

Recent topics in "** Enlightenment 101 **"

Topic Author Replies Last Post
I have two Pictures, Crown Chakra ON and OFF.... aron 1 Yesterday, 9:46 PM
Light & Mint...a snack for the mind !!! Willyum 6 December 31, 2009
@%^&%$&^()&()%^%#$ Aschleigh 1 November 26, 2009
Hi onlineIndigo 1 August 27, 2009